Diana Winter posted on AT on May 7, 2006
Did PLANS tell lies to obtain a grant? Is there some reason you might think this? What kind of lie? To who, about what? Is there some evidence for this, or any reason you can think of PLANS would lie to obtain a grant? I can certainly agree that telling a lie is usually unethical, but until you bring this into the realm of something that actually might have happened, and explain why you think so, it is your own behavior that is unethical.
Diana Winter posted on AT on May 8, 2006
Christian fundamentalists are also entitled to religious freedom, which is the basis of the lawsuit. You or I don’t have to like their religion, I don’t like it any more than they like anthroposophy, but they have a right to support, via grant giving, a lawsuit that protects their rights. It was a *good* thing to do – it was not ethically “murky.” Nor did PLANS, in accepting it, do anything ethically “murky.” (It’s a PR disaster, I agree; but not ethically wrong.)
Well, the telling lies in the grant applications turned out to be pretty bad for the fundamentalists, in this particular case, although I think they got what they deserved. No, not for being fundamentalists, nor for funding a case against waldorf in public education. They got what they deserved for skipping out on their responsibilities as grantors and not bothering to do a smidgen of research and some critical reading. Where did these folks get the money to make grants? Obviously, from donors. Donors to a cause deserve fiscally responsible behavior from the people they give their money to. PLANS and their lawyers were a bad investment and this should have been obvious within a couple of days of the receipt of the grant application. Would you give money to a group to pursue a lawsuit if they can’t get their facts straight? If they call something Wicca when it is something else entirely? PLANS and their lawyer have done a pathetic job on this lawsuit (see PLANS Loses Waldorf Court Case, Lies About it in Press Release ) and the clues were there to begin with. It is too bad someone wasn’t paying attention.
Diana Winter posted on May 9, 2006
When confronted, deny, deny, deny
Later that same day I put up a couple of quotes from the grant application.
We didn’t hear from Diana again until May 13. I’ve already quoted her initial (feeble) response on this blog Responses to: A Peculiar Grant Application–Part I
Here, at 9:08 a.m. on May 13 is Diana Winter’s final response (at least on AT).
No, Deborah. This game is finished. You simply make yourself appear desperate when you immediately abandon one accusation the moment it is challenged, and start a new one. The whole question of who accused who of Wicca is not going to be revived here now, at least not with my participation. I’ve gone on record about it several times. Nice try changing the subject though!
The quotes I posted included the Wicca bit, so in what way was I changing the subject? Obviously, by raising a topic Diana wanted to ignore. I presented a package deal, not of accusations, but of direct quotes from an actual PLANS grant application. The question I asked was if these quotes were lies. Diana decided that one item could have been a mistake, rather than a lie. So, until I concede that it could, indeed, have been a mistake, rather than a lie, I’m not allowed to discuss anything else? Odd concept of the rules of online discussion.
So who is desperate? Who ran away to hide back in the cozy WC where it is possible to pretend that everything is okay?